ananomous quote... you cant defeat me you can only kill my body even my grave will fight against you tyrants... …11Put on the full armor of God, so that you can make your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world’s darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore take up the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you will be able to stand your ground, and having done everything, to stand.
Well articulated. Perhaps that’s why I went out on my own to scratch out a living at 19. At that time I ‘learned’ to trust no one - regretfully I used a lot of weed and a bit of alcohol to tolerate social transactions, this delayed my personal growth a lot:) yet I stayed focused on growing more competent in my metal skills. When I had a child at age 38 the spell was broken and I stepped up to the plate. Amazing how responsibility for a helpless little one brought, and continues to bring out more desire for life and living in myself. Sort of broke out of compartmentalizing my creativity in the singular direction of the metal smithing .
Thanks again Ray for providing a platform for the self reflecting and re-re-re-learning :)
Susan, it is I, who must be grateful for readers who can relate to my messages, because I'm confident they can relay their knowledge further on and help others to find the center of their own selves. Growth, apparently, is also related to everyone you or I know.
At 19, I was a "skilled" factory worker, looking after my disabled mother and my younger sister, who was a freshman at high school. There is a lot to learn about human nature, including my own, in a factory, too.
Until I had a child, I used to think that only children need their parents, but your experience is probably universal: taking care of your children makes you grow up in the most unexpected ways.
It gives me joy to learn that your work integrated into your life in ways most people can't even fathom.
“A bird sitting on a tree is never afraid of the branch breaking, because her trust is not on the branch but on her own wings. Always believe in yourself” – Unknown
It depends on what people believe. If they believe that the pre-arranged explosions on the ground and the holographic UFOs in the sky are real, you win. :)
Tanks are not all-powerful, either. Sometimes, people have to get out of their metal caskets, after all. :)
I was a non-traditional college student in the early 2000's. Most of my classes had traditional aged students. One class we were forced to do a 5 man group project. 2 people never showed up to meetings, and the one person who did, shared his "floppy disk" which was always blank, but he swore it worked on his computer. I drove 50 miles one way to go to college, and had to work around all the schedules of those who already lived on campus. What a joke. Guess who ended up doing the entire project. Yep, me. On a positive note, the professor knew, and I got the A, while the others did not. Still, it didn't make up for weeks of frustration knowing from the beginning I would end up doing all the work myself. I find the same still happens in every workplace I have ever been involved with. That is also why Communism cannot work-as so many sit back and let others do the work. Nobody ends up working. Everything ends up collapsing.
Oh, boy. That prof was a monster and a freeloader...
In comparison, I allowed my students to pick their projects. Most of them picked one from my examples of 30 or 40 topics. My objective was to make sure they did stuff that interested them. After that, they only had to follow simple patterns of arguments and they were on their own. They often asked me what my opinion was and I said my opinion didn't matter; they had to fend for their stuff (of course, I didn't attack them, only made sure that their arguments added up at least to a certain extent).
Each of my student had to present their ideas, but I made sure it was a supportive environment. Students contributed on an individual bases (no "group work" in my classes, thank you) in order to explore further possibilities and nobody tried to destroy their fellow students' efforts. Of course, some of the efforts didn't add up, but that was few and far between, because by the time the class got to that point, only people who knew what to do stuck around (to be fair, I made sure my students wrote an essay on the very first day in class and warned the ones who couldn't make it without grandma's help; essay-writing services were excluded, because it usually took me three weeks to explain the modules of a project, and a pro essay writer only has 15 minutes for an "essay," which would be insufficient for even understanding the project, and I also warned my students of a central database of generic papers that would easily eliminate them from the college, if used, b/o plagiarism).
Not sure about workplaces, but communism is certainly against human nature.
I did a similar thing. You all do the "brainstorming " and I'll write the paper. That way I didn't have to engage in "teamwork" but no one could say I didn't do most of the work for upon which the actual grade was based. Worked for me, but oh so odious!
Brainstorming is BS and that was demonstrated at least 20 years ago, so you had a pretty bad instructor... You might as well call it brain diarrhea. :)
In "group work," someone has to do the work and, in your case, it was you. It must have been hard to put up with all the lazy/stupid people around you...
The Pilgrims were also "Christians," yet they couldn't maintain a surviving community built on selfless sharing. Once they reinstated personal rewards for one's work, they stopped dying of starvation.
Please, refrain from labeling ("unfair"; let the readers decide) and remain as specific as possible. If you have objections, please, link them specifically to my statements.
Brainstorming is popular only with those who know they need to rely on someone else's brains, in my (not so :-) humble experience. I call 'm parasites.
For me the brainstorming and discussion was harder than writing. So I always felt like we all took the easy way out in a way. I don't claim to have been the smartest among them. Just the only one with some facility for scientific writing. And perhaps not a lot more! But thank you for your kind words!
Yes, definitely this! I would not be surprised if the Tikkun Olam mob were behind the whole cloying mess of team work. It seldom comes naturally (should be a big tell) which is why it requires so much training input. It certainly hamstrings the top talent and aims for the lowest common denominator. Having experienced corporate life until age 35, I was fortunate to have a second career as an independent business consultant. Suffice to say I had more personal time and dramatically more success and satisfaction. For leadership to work it needs to be an enlightened despotic meritocracy.
For me, it depends upon the environment and the task at hand. Most of my life has been spent as a strong individual who stood alone to do the heavy lifting from academic excellence to skiing. But many experiences were possibly better when a team was assembled. For instance, I gave birth to my two children at home with my husband and my midwife for my son and then with only my husband for my daughter, although I did most of the work! When I played volleyball, it took a team and in my restaurant, I needed a group of people with different skill sets to make it a success, even though I did most of the food prep and bookkeeping. In my private practice, I worked alone and with a naturopath; yet our Wellness Center had 63 practitioners to serve all of our patients' needs. In business, I preferred working primarily on my own as Executive Director of an NPO, although by design it was useful to have a Board of Directors to handle multiple tasks simultaneously. So...it all depends on the situation (as long as everyone pulls their own weight)!
The key is in the last statement in parentheses, but there is more. Only everyone being responsible for their own part can ensure success. It is also important that participants play roles they are able to play, or the project fails due to its weakest links.
Of course, the kind of team needed, as you are saying, is also project, dependent. I don't know enough about volleyball, but as far as I can recall, players rotate, so everyone has to be good at each playing role. In soccer, certain strengths and weaknesses determine the players' positions.
I love this!!! "According to studies in the 1980s, a single intelligent person was able to solve a complex realistic scenario alone faster and more efficiently than a group in which the same person was present." A friend likes my stuff - but sees that what's really needed is a panel of psychologists, as together we'd have more strategies, etc. I do not agree. Especially I don't see this as an effective way of giving space for people to take on their particular challenges. So, thanks for this wonderful backing of what I knew inside was right.
Psychology has become greatly applicable as long as it is weaponized; it is a powerful tool of mass destruction. As for helping people, it is a bit better that Psychiatry, because its proponents are not allowed to poison people with toxic "medications" and have less power to destroy lives.
I see things - and have experienced things very differently. I see that psychology - inner development - while often turned into something horribly limiting, can also add enormously to lives. I see myself as a mentor or guide in my groups, for instance - and I have had amazing testimonials from people who have found the groups transformative.
Sorry, I've only had individual experiences that were life-transforming. Not a single one as a part of a group. I do not conform and I take full responsibility for my decisions and for my actions. Why would I need a group?
The groups I'm mentioning were for personal development (one of them) and being more politically active (the other). I've had a bunch of people say they found what they gained from being in the group was transformative. It had nothing to do with taking or not taking responsibility for their actions and decisions. It had to do with both inner and outer changes that they came to through being in the group. No one is saying you need a group. The people chose to be in the group.
Of course, you had nothing to do with anyone taking responsibility. All you (or, for that matter, I as the professor I used to be) had to do was create an environment in which experience is concentrated and focused on the problem addressed.
Sorry, if I misunderstood what you previously said. Indeed, I don't need a group, and if you can come up with ANY idea why I ever would, please, let me know. In my case, why would I ever "choose to be" in a group. It might be my short-nearsightedness, but I've never profited from anything like that, but I've surely experienced a LOT of drawbacks...
It sounds like you have had horrible experiences (a LOT of drawbacks) in groups. I don't see any reason for you to have anything to do with groups. On my side, I've had some very good group experiences.
Worse than that: most people are taught to value getting consensus instead of thinking well, coming to the logical conclusions. BORING!! (And that's the best I can say,)
Karen Honey theorized that people manifest three different orientations to others: toward, against or away. I spent my youth trying to find a group where I fit in with others. Then in mid-life I wasted my energy going against the flow trying to convince others of where they were wrong or misguided. Nowadays I have become content with solitude and prefer to be alone except for relevant interactions with immediate family(we are a three generation household) and our handful of employees and close friends. Spending the day in my garden tending plants and chickens, hours in the kitchen cooking and baking, watching my granddaughters play or teaching them life skills, reading late into the night, these are the the mark of an old woman who has become resigned to the reality that most change/transformation occurs on a personal level. People don’t want to hear what I have to say, so the way I live my life seems to be the only method I have of conveying the truth as I understand it. I grieve for those I care about who are being destroyed by the powers that be, but I cannot make them see what I see. In the end I may be destroyed by those same powers, but I need to know that I did my best not to go along to get along.
That is ..legalistically true, get the job done, never mind others,
just take care of yourself.
A very grim, but functional world, might as well bring on AI.
But if the idea is how to work together to bring a productive result,
then EVENTUALLY, we may be 'stronger together', just not
instant, automatic assumption.
To develop empathy, love, caring takes time, and this is one way.
I'd say it's how the groups are formed.
A lot to it. I'd have 6 groups of 4, titles for 2, plus 2 assistants.
Two marks, individual and net group effort using
leaders and myself for marks.
3 periods, certain goals each one. Present on 3rd, second half,
just a 4 minute presentation, we use number schemes,
average taken.
We need together to survive, gotta learn.
ananomous quote... you cant defeat me you can only kill my body even my grave will fight against you tyrants... …11Put on the full armor of God, so that you can make your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world’s darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore take up the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you will be able to stand your ground, and having done everything, to stand.
You're right.
Well articulated. Perhaps that’s why I went out on my own to scratch out a living at 19. At that time I ‘learned’ to trust no one - regretfully I used a lot of weed and a bit of alcohol to tolerate social transactions, this delayed my personal growth a lot:) yet I stayed focused on growing more competent in my metal skills. When I had a child at age 38 the spell was broken and I stepped up to the plate. Amazing how responsibility for a helpless little one brought, and continues to bring out more desire for life and living in myself. Sort of broke out of compartmentalizing my creativity in the singular direction of the metal smithing .
Thanks again Ray for providing a platform for the self reflecting and re-re-re-learning :)
Susan, it is I, who must be grateful for readers who can relate to my messages, because I'm confident they can relay their knowledge further on and help others to find the center of their own selves. Growth, apparently, is also related to everyone you or I know.
At 19, I was a "skilled" factory worker, looking after my disabled mother and my younger sister, who was a freshman at high school. There is a lot to learn about human nature, including my own, in a factory, too.
Until I had a child, I used to think that only children need their parents, but your experience is probably universal: taking care of your children makes you grow up in the most unexpected ways.
It gives me joy to learn that your work integrated into your life in ways most people can't even fathom.
“A bird sitting on a tree is never afraid of the branch breaking, because her trust is not on the branch but on her own wings. Always believe in yourself” – Unknown
It's a qualitative vs quantitative approach for sure. Why a man with 1 UFO or powerful mind is stronger than 1000 tanks.
It depends on what people believe. If they believe that the pre-arranged explosions on the ground and the holographic UFOs in the sky are real, you win. :)
Tanks are not all-powerful, either. Sometimes, people have to get out of their metal caskets, after all. :)
I was a non-traditional college student in the early 2000's. Most of my classes had traditional aged students. One class we were forced to do a 5 man group project. 2 people never showed up to meetings, and the one person who did, shared his "floppy disk" which was always blank, but he swore it worked on his computer. I drove 50 miles one way to go to college, and had to work around all the schedules of those who already lived on campus. What a joke. Guess who ended up doing the entire project. Yep, me. On a positive note, the professor knew, and I got the A, while the others did not. Still, it didn't make up for weeks of frustration knowing from the beginning I would end up doing all the work myself. I find the same still happens in every workplace I have ever been involved with. That is also why Communism cannot work-as so many sit back and let others do the work. Nobody ends up working. Everything ends up collapsing.
Revisit the story of the Little Red Hen!
Oh, boy. That prof was a monster and a freeloader...
In comparison, I allowed my students to pick their projects. Most of them picked one from my examples of 30 or 40 topics. My objective was to make sure they did stuff that interested them. After that, they only had to follow simple patterns of arguments and they were on their own. They often asked me what my opinion was and I said my opinion didn't matter; they had to fend for their stuff (of course, I didn't attack them, only made sure that their arguments added up at least to a certain extent).
Each of my student had to present their ideas, but I made sure it was a supportive environment. Students contributed on an individual bases (no "group work" in my classes, thank you) in order to explore further possibilities and nobody tried to destroy their fellow students' efforts. Of course, some of the efforts didn't add up, but that was few and far between, because by the time the class got to that point, only people who knew what to do stuck around (to be fair, I made sure my students wrote an essay on the very first day in class and warned the ones who couldn't make it without grandma's help; essay-writing services were excluded, because it usually took me three weeks to explain the modules of a project, and a pro essay writer only has 15 minutes for an "essay," which would be insufficient for even understanding the project, and I also warned my students of a central database of generic papers that would easily eliminate them from the college, if used, b/o plagiarism).
Not sure about workplaces, but communism is certainly against human nature.
I did a similar thing. You all do the "brainstorming " and I'll write the paper. That way I didn't have to engage in "teamwork" but no one could say I didn't do most of the work for upon which the actual grade was based. Worked for me, but oh so odious!
Brainstorming is BS and that was demonstrated at least 20 years ago, so you had a pretty bad instructor... You might as well call it brain diarrhea. :)
In "group work," someone has to do the work and, in your case, it was you. It must have been hard to put up with all the lazy/stupid people around you...
Depends on how close you are, committed, caring.
Our group skits went well. We assigned what each liked best.
We did 'discuss'? ...brainstorm skits. Assigned a moderator,
went well. I think it was kind of dark comedy.
I actually love teamwork, but I've been led to workable, good situations.
And situations ARE dynamic: what worked once might not the next time.
So, a time and a place.
As Christians, my mate and I are beholden to God, so
we can trust ourselves and each other.
We do projects and we learn a LOT from them.
What you describe is unfair. Wouldn't do it. Had a switch classes once become that. Lot of animus there.
The Pilgrims were also "Christians," yet they couldn't maintain a surviving community built on selfless sharing. Once they reinstated personal rewards for one's work, they stopped dying of starvation.
Please, refrain from labeling ("unfair"; let the readers decide) and remain as specific as possible. If you have objections, please, link them specifically to my statements.
I think I would say 'I find it 'unfair' in line with
free speech. How do you find it, btw?
Please, explain specifically.
They actually have to be following the bible rather clearly. This requires I explain something about biblical Christianity which is
scriptural but I don't always see it followed.
A Christian is 'born again' and they then begin
to put down carnal ways, love one another
according to what's said in I Clorinthians 13:4-7. Which is a really great thing to try to learn even if NOT Christian.
I did try to explain that we work 'better together' if we are 'in one accord', having
godly love for one another. This is no easy task at all.
And I suggest it can only be done on a small scale.
What you're saying actually happened IN the
bible, where they DID try to be 'communal' but
two people tried to take advantage and died
from defiling the group. The group seems to have disbanded.
Actually, 'personal rewards' is a 'worldly concept' meaning the people weren't doing it
'unto the Lord', but for themselves. This is
where all the problems begin, the me centered
approach.
But if done that way, THEN, it is 'stronger
together' and a very worthy lifetime goal.
And I remember that children didn't do well
with 'rewards' but by 'inner rewarding' for
their efforts. I think this method must
disappear as they get older.
I'll try to find what I said to see if I think
'unfair' was an unjust word there.
Thanks.
You have your opinion and I have mine, which is good. I'll leave the rest up to the readers.
Brainstorming is popular only with those who know they need to rely on someone else's brains, in my (not so :-) humble experience. I call 'm parasites.
For me the brainstorming and discussion was harder than writing. So I always felt like we all took the easy way out in a way. I don't claim to have been the smartest among them. Just the only one with some facility for scientific writing. And perhaps not a lot more! But thank you for your kind words!
Your observation that in "group work" everyone performs as little as possible is an essential addendum to my notes. Good thing you came up with it!
Yes, definitely this! I would not be surprised if the Tikkun Olam mob were behind the whole cloying mess of team work. It seldom comes naturally (should be a big tell) which is why it requires so much training input. It certainly hamstrings the top talent and aims for the lowest common denominator. Having experienced corporate life until age 35, I was fortunate to have a second career as an independent business consultant. Suffice to say I had more personal time and dramatically more success and satisfaction. For leadership to work it needs to be an enlightened despotic meritocracy.
A lot of assignments in Architecture degree courses are group assignments. I don't need to tell you what a fail that is.
The lesson learnt has nothing to do with actual architecture.
Dumbing people down starts no later than in "education." :)
Personal responsibility is the key as well as the gift
It's also inevitable for those, who want to live their own lives.
For me, it depends upon the environment and the task at hand. Most of my life has been spent as a strong individual who stood alone to do the heavy lifting from academic excellence to skiing. But many experiences were possibly better when a team was assembled. For instance, I gave birth to my two children at home with my husband and my midwife for my son and then with only my husband for my daughter, although I did most of the work! When I played volleyball, it took a team and in my restaurant, I needed a group of people with different skill sets to make it a success, even though I did most of the food prep and bookkeeping. In my private practice, I worked alone and with a naturopath; yet our Wellness Center had 63 practitioners to serve all of our patients' needs. In business, I preferred working primarily on my own as Executive Director of an NPO, although by design it was useful to have a Board of Directors to handle multiple tasks simultaneously. So...it all depends on the situation (as long as everyone pulls their own weight)!
The key is in the last statement in parentheses, but there is more. Only everyone being responsible for their own part can ensure success. It is also important that participants play roles they are able to play, or the project fails due to its weakest links.
Of course, the kind of team needed, as you are saying, is also project, dependent. I don't know enough about volleyball, but as far as I can recall, players rotate, so everyone has to be good at each playing role. In soccer, certain strengths and weaknesses determine the players' positions.
I love this!!! "According to studies in the 1980s, a single intelligent person was able to solve a complex realistic scenario alone faster and more efficiently than a group in which the same person was present." A friend likes my stuff - but sees that what's really needed is a panel of psychologists, as together we'd have more strategies, etc. I do not agree. Especially I don't see this as an effective way of giving space for people to take on their particular challenges. So, thanks for this wonderful backing of what I knew inside was right.
Psychology has become greatly applicable as long as it is weaponized; it is a powerful tool of mass destruction. As for helping people, it is a bit better that Psychiatry, because its proponents are not allowed to poison people with toxic "medications" and have less power to destroy lives.
I see things - and have experienced things very differently. I see that psychology - inner development - while often turned into something horribly limiting, can also add enormously to lives. I see myself as a mentor or guide in my groups, for instance - and I have had amazing testimonials from people who have found the groups transformative.
Sorry, I've only had individual experiences that were life-transforming. Not a single one as a part of a group. I do not conform and I take full responsibility for my decisions and for my actions. Why would I need a group?
The groups I'm mentioning were for personal development (one of them) and being more politically active (the other). I've had a bunch of people say they found what they gained from being in the group was transformative. It had nothing to do with taking or not taking responsibility for their actions and decisions. It had to do with both inner and outer changes that they came to through being in the group. No one is saying you need a group. The people chose to be in the group.
Of course, you had nothing to do with anyone taking responsibility. All you (or, for that matter, I as the professor I used to be) had to do was create an environment in which experience is concentrated and focused on the problem addressed.
Sorry, if I misunderstood what you previously said. Indeed, I don't need a group, and if you can come up with ANY idea why I ever would, please, let me know. In my case, why would I ever "choose to be" in a group. It might be my short-nearsightedness, but I've never profited from anything like that, but I've surely experienced a LOT of drawbacks...
It sounds like you have had horrible experiences (a LOT of drawbacks) in groups. I don't see any reason for you to have anything to do with groups. On my side, I've had some very good group experiences.
Groups have to waste time dealing with personalities, seeking agreement and trying not to upset anyone.
Worse than that: most people are taught to value getting consensus instead of thinking well, coming to the logical conclusions. BORING!! (And that's the best I can say,)
I have always said that if everybody likes me, there must be something wrong with me (because somewhere I condone bad decisions and actions).
To me, it is definitely boring, but it is also evil...
I think we in this Substack corner are not agreeable types.
We don't go along to get along, that's why we haven't been shot up.
Karen Honey theorized that people manifest three different orientations to others: toward, against or away. I spent my youth trying to find a group where I fit in with others. Then in mid-life I wasted my energy going against the flow trying to convince others of where they were wrong or misguided. Nowadays I have become content with solitude and prefer to be alone except for relevant interactions with immediate family(we are a three generation household) and our handful of employees and close friends. Spending the day in my garden tending plants and chickens, hours in the kitchen cooking and baking, watching my granddaughters play or teaching them life skills, reading late into the night, these are the the mark of an old woman who has become resigned to the reality that most change/transformation occurs on a personal level. People don’t want to hear what I have to say, so the way I live my life seems to be the only method I have of conveying the truth as I understand it. I grieve for those I care about who are being destroyed by the powers that be, but I cannot make them see what I see. In the end I may be destroyed by those same powers, but I need to know that I did my best not to go along to get along.
Your life sounds good LJB. Being an example of sense for those around you.
I think, your silence tells it all for those who are willing to listen.
... and haven't (yet) been shut up. :)