That the true pilot must pay attention to the year and seasons and sky and stars and winds, and whatever else belongs to his art, if he intends to be really qualified for the command of a ship, and that he must and will be the steerer, whether other people like or not-the possibility of this union of authority with the steerer’s art has never seriously entered into their thoughts or been made part of their calling.
Now in vessels which are in a state of mutiny and by sailors who are mutineers, how will the true pilot be regarded? Will he not be called by them a prater, a star-gazer, a good-for-nothing?
Of course, said Adeimantus.
Then you will hardly need, I said, to hear the interpretation of the figure, which describes the true philosopher in his relation to the State; for you understand already.
[Ad.] Certainly.
[Soc.] Then suppose you now take this parable to the gentleman who is surprised at finding that philosophers have no honour in their cities; explain it to him and try to convince him that their having honour would be far more extraordinary.
[Ad.] I will.
[Soc.] Say to him, that, in deeming the best votaries of philosophy to be useless to the rest of the world, he is right; but also tell him to attribute their uselessness to the fault of those who will not use them, and not to themselves. The pilot should not humbly beg the sailors to be commanded by him –that is not the order of nature; neither are ‘the wise to go to the doors of the rich’ –the ingenious author of this saying told a lie –but the truth is, that, when a man is ill, whether he be rich or poor, to the physician he must go, and he who wants to be governed, to him who is able to govern. The ruler who is good for anything ought not to beg his subjects to be ruled by him [ –> down this road lies the modern solution: a sound, well informed people will seek sound leaders, who will not need to manipulate or bribe or worse, and such a ruler will in turn be checked by the soundness of the people, cf. US DoI, 1776]; although the present governors of mankind are of a different stamp; they may be justly compared to the mutinous sailors, and the true helmsmen to those who are called by them good-for-nothings and star-gazers.
[Ad.] Precisely so, he said.
[Soc] For these reasons, and among men like these, philosophy, the noblest pursuit of all, is not likely to be much esteemed by those of the opposite faction; not that the greatest and most lasting injury is done to her by her opponents, but by her own professing followers, the same of whom you suppose the accuser to say, that the greater number of them are arrant rogues, and the best are useless; in which opinion I agreed [–> even among the students of the sound state (here, political philosophy and likely history etc.), many are of unsound motivation and intent, so mere education is not enough, character transformation is critical].
[Ad.] Yes.
[Soc.] And the reason why the good are useless has now been explained?
[Ad.] True.
[Soc.] Then shall we proceed to show that the corruption of the majority is also unavoidable, and that this is not to be laid to the charge of philosophy any more than the other?
[Ad.] By all means.
[Soc.] And let us ask and answer in turn, first going back to the description of the gentle and noble nature.[ — > note the character issue] Truth, as you will remember, was his leader, whom he followed always and in all things [ –> The spirit of truth as a marker]; failing in this, he was an impostor, and had no part or lot in true philosophy [–> the spirit of truth is a marker, for good or ill] . . . >>
Simply as an observation we are inculcated in stupidity. Expertise became really important around WW1 and afterwards. We can make few changes to this rule by experts. Experts have told us it will not work. We seek the "best" or the "good" in our eyes, which we see through the eyes of
Experts or Influencers. Our heads are round to let our thoughts change direction but without an expert the direction our thoughts take may not be that favored by presumably well trained minds. Plato takes up this idea in regards to the Pilot of a ship. In Book 6 of Plato’s Republic, in the context of a damning appraisal of the way the democracy at Athens works, Socrates compares the Athenian state to a ship. The owner of the ship, he says, is big and strong – but he is hard of hearing, shortsighted and not much of a navigator. The ship’s crew are in persistent disarray. They recklessly gorge themselves on the ship’s resources, while disagreeing with one another about who should be in charge on board, with each sailor believing he should be the captain (despite having neither experience nor training). Being the captain, the sailors maintain, requires no special skill (Gk. techne).
In this analogy, the citizen population of Athens are the owners of the ship. In Plato’s candid assessment, they are politically powerful but lacking in governmental acumen and intellectual ability. With them in charge, the Athenian ship is not going to cut a clear, sensible or efficient path.
The crew of the ship, meanwhile, are the disputatious demagogues and politicians who hold sway in Athens’ political assembly, each vying for influence and power over their fellow citizens.
Plato wants his fellow Athenians to undertake a thoroughgoing revaluation of the way things on board work. Rather than looking to the ship’s owner, or to themselves, he thinks the sailors on board the Athenian ship should look instead to a marginal, currently powerless figure whose quiet presence on board is regrettably overlooked: this figure he calls the ‘true navigator’. This true navigator is a person of great learning, wisdom and moral fibre: a philosopher.
I’ve always found it ironic that some highly intelligent ‘experts’ debate the existence of God yet view themselves as the Most High and demand everyone bow to their decisions and worship the ground they walk on, while the ones that do believe in God aren’t intelligent enough to know they are not God.
WOW Ray what an absolutely spot on article wow... You summed up everything.. Nothing left to say... You told the history and what's going on now and has been for a long long time in this country and around the world.... We allowed the weeds to grow and get out of control.. We are seeing now that the medical, scientific and government people and organizations, so called news media, which is basically the propaganda arm and social media and financial conglomerates and corporations, and supposedly our government, which it really never was, are all corrupt.. From the President on down, they serve a master, they do not represent us... Anytime all this Plandemic scenarios are allowed to go on, and very few people in every organization in this country or the world say nothing and do nothing but help keep pushing this genocide, then they represent the people at the top who are doing this, plain and simple.. So we owe them nothing, just like they have given us nothing, only their hidden masters... The ones you see are not the masters, you will never see them involved..
I certainly don’t miss having to interact with those pesky PhD’s who think they are so much smarter than everyone in the room. That may be true but the real truth is if you can’t express an idea or translate it into something that can help someone else understand than what good are you? Yelling that “this is 5th grade math people” at a room full of type A personalities in a medicinal chemistry class is not only unhelpful, but smacks of “you’re too stupid to understand” which was certainly true for about 3/4 of the class (we were studying pH and pKa. If you didn’t GET it you just didn’t GET it in this case). But I was able to explain it to my friends in a way that they could understand which is why I will always be smarter than him--even though I couldn’t tell you about any of that now 23 years later.
That the true pilot must pay attention to the year and seasons and sky and stars and winds, and whatever else belongs to his art, if he intends to be really qualified for the command of a ship, and that he must and will be the steerer, whether other people like or not-the possibility of this union of authority with the steerer’s art has never seriously entered into their thoughts or been made part of their calling.
Now in vessels which are in a state of mutiny and by sailors who are mutineers, how will the true pilot be regarded? Will he not be called by them a prater, a star-gazer, a good-for-nothing?
Of course, said Adeimantus.
Then you will hardly need, I said, to hear the interpretation of the figure, which describes the true philosopher in his relation to the State; for you understand already.
[Ad.] Certainly.
[Soc.] Then suppose you now take this parable to the gentleman who is surprised at finding that philosophers have no honour in their cities; explain it to him and try to convince him that their having honour would be far more extraordinary.
[Ad.] I will.
[Soc.] Say to him, that, in deeming the best votaries of philosophy to be useless to the rest of the world, he is right; but also tell him to attribute their uselessness to the fault of those who will not use them, and not to themselves. The pilot should not humbly beg the sailors to be commanded by him –that is not the order of nature; neither are ‘the wise to go to the doors of the rich’ –the ingenious author of this saying told a lie –but the truth is, that, when a man is ill, whether he be rich or poor, to the physician he must go, and he who wants to be governed, to him who is able to govern. The ruler who is good for anything ought not to beg his subjects to be ruled by him [ –> down this road lies the modern solution: a sound, well informed people will seek sound leaders, who will not need to manipulate or bribe or worse, and such a ruler will in turn be checked by the soundness of the people, cf. US DoI, 1776]; although the present governors of mankind are of a different stamp; they may be justly compared to the mutinous sailors, and the true helmsmen to those who are called by them good-for-nothings and star-gazers.
[Ad.] Precisely so, he said.
[Soc] For these reasons, and among men like these, philosophy, the noblest pursuit of all, is not likely to be much esteemed by those of the opposite faction; not that the greatest and most lasting injury is done to her by her opponents, but by her own professing followers, the same of whom you suppose the accuser to say, that the greater number of them are arrant rogues, and the best are useless; in which opinion I agreed [–> even among the students of the sound state (here, political philosophy and likely history etc.), many are of unsound motivation and intent, so mere education is not enough, character transformation is critical].
[Ad.] Yes.
[Soc.] And the reason why the good are useless has now been explained?
[Ad.] True.
[Soc.] Then shall we proceed to show that the corruption of the majority is also unavoidable, and that this is not to be laid to the charge of philosophy any more than the other?
[Ad.] By all means.
[Soc.] And let us ask and answer in turn, first going back to the description of the gentle and noble nature.[ — > note the character issue] Truth, as you will remember, was his leader, whom he followed always and in all things [ –> The spirit of truth as a marker]; failing in this, he was an impostor, and had no part or lot in true philosophy [–> the spirit of truth is a marker, for good or ill] . . . >>
Simply as an observation we are inculcated in stupidity. Expertise became really important around WW1 and afterwards. We can make few changes to this rule by experts. Experts have told us it will not work. We seek the "best" or the "good" in our eyes, which we see through the eyes of
Experts or Influencers. Our heads are round to let our thoughts change direction but without an expert the direction our thoughts take may not be that favored by presumably well trained minds. Plato takes up this idea in regards to the Pilot of a ship. In Book 6 of Plato’s Republic, in the context of a damning appraisal of the way the democracy at Athens works, Socrates compares the Athenian state to a ship. The owner of the ship, he says, is big and strong – but he is hard of hearing, shortsighted and not much of a navigator. The ship’s crew are in persistent disarray. They recklessly gorge themselves on the ship’s resources, while disagreeing with one another about who should be in charge on board, with each sailor believing he should be the captain (despite having neither experience nor training). Being the captain, the sailors maintain, requires no special skill (Gk. techne).
In this analogy, the citizen population of Athens are the owners of the ship. In Plato’s candid assessment, they are politically powerful but lacking in governmental acumen and intellectual ability. With them in charge, the Athenian ship is not going to cut a clear, sensible or efficient path.
The crew of the ship, meanwhile, are the disputatious demagogues and politicians who hold sway in Athens’ political assembly, each vying for influence and power over their fellow citizens.
Plato wants his fellow Athenians to undertake a thoroughgoing revaluation of the way things on board work. Rather than looking to the ship’s owner, or to themselves, he thinks the sailors on board the Athenian ship should look instead to a marginal, currently powerless figure whose quiet presence on board is regrettably overlooked: this figure he calls the ‘true navigator’. This true navigator is a person of great learning, wisdom and moral fibre: a philosopher.
I’ve always found it ironic that some highly intelligent ‘experts’ debate the existence of God yet view themselves as the Most High and demand everyone bow to their decisions and worship the ground they walk on, while the ones that do believe in God aren’t intelligent enough to know they are not God.
WOW Ray what an absolutely spot on article wow... You summed up everything.. Nothing left to say... You told the history and what's going on now and has been for a long long time in this country and around the world.... We allowed the weeds to grow and get out of control.. We are seeing now that the medical, scientific and government people and organizations, so called news media, which is basically the propaganda arm and social media and financial conglomerates and corporations, and supposedly our government, which it really never was, are all corrupt.. From the President on down, they serve a master, they do not represent us... Anytime all this Plandemic scenarios are allowed to go on, and very few people in every organization in this country or the world say nothing and do nothing but help keep pushing this genocide, then they represent the people at the top who are doing this, plain and simple.. So we owe them nothing, just like they have given us nothing, only their hidden masters... The ones you see are not the masters, you will never see them involved..
I certainly don’t miss having to interact with those pesky PhD’s who think they are so much smarter than everyone in the room. That may be true but the real truth is if you can’t express an idea or translate it into something that can help someone else understand than what good are you? Yelling that “this is 5th grade math people” at a room full of type A personalities in a medicinal chemistry class is not only unhelpful, but smacks of “you’re too stupid to understand” which was certainly true for about 3/4 of the class (we were studying pH and pKa. If you didn’t GET it you just didn’t GET it in this case). But I was able to explain it to my friends in a way that they could understand which is why I will always be smarter than him--even though I couldn’t tell you about any of that now 23 years later.
I loved this one: "posing as the crème of humanity"!
Hahahahaha!