What with Arguments?

To see or not to see, that is the question.

A definitely useful discussion.

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The origin

In the last couple of days, I have engaged in a productive conversation with a fellow author on Substack, Pete Lincoln, who respected my comments enough to honor me with his answer in the comment section of his article:

https://pete843.substack.com/p/the-flu-really-is-back

Thinking further about the details might prove conducive to new revelations.

Prior to reading this article, you might want to consider reading my two previous ones that are closely related:

https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/still-thinking-about-the-vials

https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/something-useful-if-you-have-the

The conversation

The following contains the conversation in Pete’s comments:

Writes And They Point and Screech Dec 7

Liked by Pete Lincoln

It seems resurgence of flu would be counter to viral interference? Why would it so efficiently interfere before and not now? Seems nonspecific testing and financial incentives toward covid a more likely explanation?

11 hr ago

Author

I tried to answer that in the post. First off its likely SC2 is not as prevalent was it was during the 2020-2021 and 2021-2022 flu seasons. Second, waning natural immunity due to the lack of much flu circulating for 2 seasons. Third, immune suppression in the population due to the jab. I failed to mention a fourth reason, perhaps the flu is evolving to evade Sars-Cov-2 viral interference, with strains that can do so having an advantage over other strains. No evidence, just a hypothesis

Also, both the flu tests and COVID tests are highly specific

Writes Ray’s Newsletter Dec 7·edited Dec 7

The “flu” is one of the hundreds of invented diseases:

https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/the-disaster-of-modern-medicine

The symptoms usually came after the expansion of electric/electronic installations...

By the way, graphene oxide was found already in the 2019 “flu vaccines.”

And I'm no fan of Igor...

Dec 7

Author

Ray, we disagree. There is no point in us discussing this further. Lets just agree to disagree . Maybe you are right, but you cant convince me you are. Cheers.

Writes Ray’s Newsletter Dec 7·edited Dec 7

Fine with me. :)

Still, it’s a miracle that a “viral infection” can be diagnosed despite the fact that a "virus" has never been isolated from an “infected” person and “viral infection” has never been proven, either. Making “vaccines” for something unknown (yes, the tiny particles are there, but where are they from, where are they going, and what are they doing interim?) is even more miraculous, but what the heck.

Cheers.

11 hr ago

Author

You start off with a false premise because your definition of isolate is incorrect. Specimens from infected and sick persons have been isolated and sequenced independently by thousands in over a hundred countries.

We never isolated or seen a gravity wave or particle and only recently have been able to see atoms

At some point Technology and Science got to point where it resembles Magic to most of us. We can either Trust or Deny or Read thousands of scientific papers to Verify it is sound. The Scientists could care less what we do, as the money will still keep flowing.

My response

Pete,

Thank you for your answer. Obviously, I won’t be able to address every detail, but I'll try my best to respectfully respond.

Most of the following is an answer for the readers and the argument by a fellow author is probably mostly for you. I am content with being cognizant of the facts (as far as such a thing is possible, and I am always ready to change my mind, when new information requires me to restructure my current cognitive models) and do not engage in long, contentious conversations, because I hope that your objective is the same as mine: assist the process of freeing humanity from the direct threat of elimination.

You and I fully agree that “science,” as all forms of methodical thinking, can only based on faith-based premises, which is why it’s a bit of overstatement to talk about “experts.” I am siding with Einstein (which I hardly ever do): if I can’t explain what I know to a six-year-old, I don’t know what I’m talking about. (Well, the quote is a bit loose and six-year-olds used to be a lot more mature in his days.) I’ll say a few words about “scientists” a bit later.

Please notice that exactly because atoms are invisible, physicists at the moment only theorize about them, conjecturing the existence of 7-14 “dimensions” (that include the four in everyday use: space in three and time in one dimension, although even time might involve more than one). They need more dimensions in order to keep their paradigms functional, at least on paper or in order to explain the inexplicable during their experiments. In the meanwhile, they are happy to collect their grants and their theories remain theories. There is nothing “magic” about it; it simply reflects on the human intellect and painfully demonstrates the inadequacy of human cognition. :)

Regarding the current prevalent “medical” paradigm, I usually refer my readers to a doctor’s fantastic article that might apply to all “vaccines” and “pandemics,” because it speaks volumes of both:

https://amidwesterndoctor.substack.com/p/the-smallpox-pandemic-response-was

As with Yeadon, I don’t agree on everything with the doctor, but the three of us agree that it would be a miracle, if even two well-meaning and intelligent independent thinkers agreed on everything. :)

The following two Substacks are also quite reliable and relevant in the current situation. Please, notice that these are only examples:

https://1dissident.substack.com

https://outraged.substack.com

Personally, I don't think there is such a thing as “we,” unless its members are specified, but the way the word is used, such groups cannot even be identified. Who is, “we,” after all?

https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/who-is-we-learn-from-the-best

During the 1918 “pandemic,” volunteers couldn’t be “infected” with coughs or even with donated blood. That’s only one of the long list of evidence substantiating that something is remarkably wrong with today’s “Medicine”:

https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/the-disaster-of-modern-medicine

By now, every thinking human being on Earth must know what “science” means: a form of human activity that justifies the acts of the rulers that direct all governments (the same interest groups own the corporations that employ “scientists”), because they can corner politicians by their global control of the money flow. In return, such human beings are sometimes offered generous compensation, while on other occasions, they must obey, due to mundanely-delivered threats. “Science” itself, as it must be clear, can only be exercised with extreme modesty, caution, and humility. My parody of the myth of science is from August 12, 2022:

https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/freaks-of-science

***

One of my subscribers describes the situation (not that Jon Rappoport et al. haven’t done so several times in previous decades); in a nutshell, the so-called “purification process” is anything but, but here is a longer version:

https://protonmagic.substack.com/p/steve-kirsch-substack-banned-me-for

For further discussions on the subject, please continue this conversation with him.

Here is a direct copy of our conversation from the comment section after my article (https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/something-useful-if-you-have-the/comments#comment-10977999):

““

Proton Magic

Writes Proton Magic News (https://protonmagic.substack.com)

Dec 6

·edited Dec 7

Liked by Ray Horvath, "The Source" :)

“Steve wanted me off because I actually looked things up on what he called ‘purified viruses’ from ATCC. Here you can see my post banned on Aug 3rd.

https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/if-viruses-dont-exist-then-how-can/comments#comment-8139667

“But I copied my comment here:

“Steve (or ghostwriter), either you don’t read or you read but don’t understand any of this, or you just dazzle with black magic illogic. You seem to purposely avoid Fan Wu because you know it’s BS, you told me on email you needed to ask your expert team, and I’ve already entrapped you into admitting there is no paper of a purified sars-cov-2 because you said it takes too long.

“This is the ATTC page on: ‘Purified Viruses’:

https://www.atcc.org/microbe-products/virology/purified-viruses#t=productTab&numberOfResults=24

“Firstly, Sars-Cov-2 isn’t on their list of 15 ‘purified viruses’, I ALREADY sent you the specs of their sars-cov-2 product:

https://www.atcc.org/products/all/VR-1986HK.aspx#documentation

“This heat-inactivated isolate was based on one-patient from this CDC paper which only did a cell-culture and genome, no isolation:

“Article: only cell culture and genome:

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/6/pdfs/20-0516.pdf

“THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT BECAUSE SARS-2 IS NOW IN OUR FACE, BUT THERE IS NO PURIFIED VERSION ANYWHERE

“To look at their purified VIRUS list, I just chose one of the 15 because I’m busy doing other things and each one takes over an hour (only 8 of those even state Purified in the title): I chose Human rhinovirus 1B, Purified ATCC VR-1645PQ

“Summary of findings:

1. The original sample VR-1645 was not clearly purified and characterized. No EM confirmation of purity, no pathogenicity confirmed, and no control. ATTC VR-1645PQ was said to be a purification of its non-purified forerunner. Classy.

2. The genome was patched together by computer.

“Conclusion: no virus was proven to be found.

--------------

“Investigative trail:

The specs say that this product was prepared from ATCC VR-1645 via purification through sucrose cushion, but doesn’t give the methods and can’t find them on PubMed so we can’t confirm the EM purification, pathogenicity, nor if there was a control. So it’s all based on VR-1645. In addition sucrose cushion is said to be ‘not perfect enough to purify my virus, because other proteins derived from cells or FBS could be pelleted together with the virus’

https://www.researchgate.net/post/What-is-the-difference-between-sucrose-gradient-ultracentrifugation-and-sucrose-cushion-ultracentrifugation-in-virus-purification-process

“Looking at VR-1645:

“This is the ‘genome’ from the number in the History spec:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/D00239.1

“This is the paper from the genome data sheet:

https://www.microbiologyresearch.org/content/journal/jgv/10.1099/0022-1317-69-1-49#tab2

“DNA sequencing was done by computer, not Sanger sequenced from a full virion particle, ‘...Nucleotide sequences…were collated and analysed using published computer programs’.

“This is the ‘purification’ reference from the above paper:

https://academic.oup.com/nar/article/12/20/7859/2358668

“It says, ‘Human rhinovirus…was propagated..in Ohio HeLa cells. The virus was purified [from] culture supernatant and centrifuging (100,000g, 4hours) through…sucrose gradient.’

“They use the word ‘virus’ even though there is no virus yet confirmed making their statement a fact before confirmation. Then they mix it with HeLa cells that have lots of genetic material. Unfortunately what was purified is unknown because there is no EM confirmation of the purification, no confirmation of pathogenicity, and no control sample. It’s just stated as fact.

“Well…its now fuzzy science and blind faith, but I thank you Steve for giving me a chance to learn how virologists can cut BS into different shapes and serve it on a dish for human consumption.”

““

Conclusion

The story of the discussion should speak for itself, but does it? If yes, how far? If not, why not?

The whole thing reminds me of an old witticism:

“Can friendship exist between men and women?” If it can, why is it that it can’t?”