Please, notice that much of this post (the Flat Earth/FE part) was a test how far it would attract bots and trolls. You can see that in the comments, which why I am leaving intact for the purpose of your being able to access all the nonsense.
Such tests usually assist with my getting an idea of my current standing. The fact that I am at 60 thousand visitors in the last 30 days again can alone explain the recent bot/troll attacks. I am also happy to report that four readers who sided with the attackers signed off, so my readership totals at 4,767 today.
The current troll/bot attack used religion for trying to discredit me and divert the reader's attention. I am not banning anyone for disagreeing with me, and the ones I do must repeatedly ASK for it with their behavior (I usually warn before banning anyone). Otherwise, the Code of Behavior is pretty self-evident; people don't just accept an invitation to a free dinner party and poop on the table. :)
It's actually not that tight. I just want to protect my readers from nonsense from commenters who are disrespectful, irrelevant, or otherwise disruptive.
This time, I allowed all those in order to show my readers how bots and trolls function.
Brave post Ray! I would like to add that the crucial issue is to focus on the purposes of FE as a counter intel program (COINTELPRO), not to argue about the geometry of the earth. The former enlightens us to manipulation of the masses, and the latter just leads to angry retorts on both sides.
Let me try to summarize the major aims of a program like FE:
1. Resistance to world powers will fight with each other and be divided.
2. As FE seems nutty to the masses, persons who call-out government/world power fakery and plans to manipulate society will be ridiculed by the masses and promote the masses' support of the government. Note that many so-called freedom fighters are also pro FE. This connection is more often than not a way to discredit all persons on the freedom side.
3. FE serves as a distraction to both the resistance and to the masses who may spend too much energy on dealing with it while the world powers push their plans ahead.
2. You must mean James Delingpole Proton! One of the shallowest cover alleged "Truthers" in the Universe. He has a 'discredit by association' for every occasion. It amazes me that so many are carried along by his flippantly upper crust charm. I bet he has his mates Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, David Cameron and Michael Gove in stitches over dinner with tales of gullible goy subscribers.
''The first question to those who succumb to obviously-deceptive arguments is,''
''obviously-deceptive arguments''.
What's the name for a statement like that.....again? Predictive, predictable? Something like that? And what does that tell us? One way or the other. Help me out here Proton.
Would you go to court with that statement Proton? Put that before the jury?
''THE EVIDENCE. BEFORE THE COURT IS. INCONTRIVERTABLE THERE'S NO NEED FOR THE JURY TO RETIRE.''
Others have discussed the geometry of the earth in detail, Ray posted 4 links I gave him, you can read those and have any free opinion on them.
I did not write the phrase you quote, ''obviously-deceptive arguments'. My opinion is quite clear in the pinned comment and I really have no more to say on the topic.
Ok Max, yes, I gave a like to this comment. I'm in Japan going to sleep now. Lets meet up on another thread some day, somewhere over the rainbow maybe.
Engagement and views supports your posts. The funny comments actually help prove that FE is COINTELPRO and shows this proof to the readers.. Just focus on what COINTELPRO is, never get in a discussion about geometry.
Correction - FE serves to discredit the Scriptures, which are a 100% motionless, flat earth Book.
Does it matter? In this world which is spiraling out of control (metaphorically speaking of the otherwise motionless land), the only safety is in knowing the Man of the Book - Jesus Christ. To discredit the Book, is to discredit the man called 'The Word of God'. A dangerous premise.
This is not a religious site, because religion would open up too many cans of worms, which wouldn't lead anywhere. If you have a factual argument, please use it. Otherwise, ignore what I am saying.
If you search for "religion" as a key word under "Archive" on my main page, you'll see that I am discussing it only from historical and anthropological points of view.
I made a podcast about the 'Plane Earth' point of view to get people thinking critically. The moon segment has some great points. Anyway, multiple points of view are great to consider. No one has yet provided me with evidence of a ball earth:
Are you saying that the ancient Greeks, Egyptians, and for that matter, Mayas and Azteks, were already conspiring? Their astronomical findings are plentiful, and they collude?
I am saying the people today are lying about the things of yesteryear. The procession of the equinox is more believable with a sky clock scenario, than a mess of sky bodies moving in many directions at once. Lots of interesting riddles.
Lying? Of course. That's how limited hangouts work: they are correct to a certain extent, and their issuers expect their audience to believe the rest...
How about finding a common denominator between what you are saying and traditional astrology? Sorry, I am not a believer in astrology for several reasons, but this might work! :)
In this comment session, I have allowed idiots to comment a lot, but that served the purpose of showing some trolls/bots/idiots. I'm sure you are not one of them. :)
It's fine. I was skeptical on his JFK theories (which are that JFK was theatre from the early 70s) and if he can't handle that then he's got no real right to critique flat earth.
You are highly intelligent, and it would have surprised me, if you were for FE.
As I describe the FE theory in the article, I am not buying it, either, but don't expect anyone to agree with me. Personally, I believe that after the official narrative has been lying about everything for over 100 years, FE is using the impetus to convince people. However, nobody will become a better person in either way, and living a valuable life is what matters...
PM doesn't ban anyone for politely disagreeing with him, but if you give me the link to the banning session, I can check it out.
I copied the above link from Safari (where I am not logged into Substack) and then posted it on Firefox (where I am logged in) to see where the post ended up. Seems to have ended up nowhere in particular.
It is not. Max and Victoria were trolling. Had to ban Victoria, and Max asked for it again in a comment section later, but heeded the warning, and I didn't ban him.
It's difficult to face much of our allegiance has been paid to an extreme cult/occult group (masons, we were told we're merely harmless men's social club) who train their member since 1776 and prior to deceive for power politics and wealth and worse (among other dark arts, practices) and have led our country into many deadly wars and dishonourable situations or non moon landing 69, distorting said creation ie shape of earth,function,purpose of heavenly bodies(stars,etc) in relation to us for occultic in knowledge,power advantages of the elite and minions over us for what they perceive as spiritual mainly gain ,not primarily scientific as they truly are dedicated to Babylonian occultic arts labeled in Bible and by many cultures effected by them in history as more destructive then otherwise to non member community's regardless of their religion or none and yes ,this reflected in their numerology famously ie 333 666 especially but several other power numbers are used,as are items like power energetic obelisks,secret languages and hand signs and oaths to the death over even their familys and country moral, legal obligations ie a illegal by it's nature to our constitution and national,state laws ( some outlawing specifically such oaths ignored as their so infiltrated..)
It is this group(& minions and fooled compartmentalized workers) that have control of the technology that reveals the shape of our earth largely and transition areas of our upper atmosphere and non falsified proximity of 7 planets and stars,sun and moon and what those actually are held hostage by them in fiction for purposes that include hiding knowledge from us of who and what we truly are going way back to our beginnings ,a theft of orientation that robs us of an incredible amount of our sense of purpose,etc, including potentially obviously,but I believe certainly who and what are creator is in relation to his creation and those who favor him or are against him and why and how this relates to good and evil and those who deceive and destroy largely vs those who seek to align themselves with the goodness of creation, relevant much today as we're so on verge of massive destructions,some already occurring quite hard to face.
Thank you, Greg, for the exhaustive (and exhausting :) ) comment!
Please, restrict your comments to one or two problems at a time; I am already flooded and still have to work to make money, so if you want me to respond, just cut it short.
In this comment section, I am more flexible than usual, so you and I might be able to have a discussion, but we must abide by the Rules of Engagement, both in trolling and in achieving results between two cooperating parties:
I am no good at numerology, and still need to be convinced about it. The same applies to astrology (I've been planning a post about it forever, but its' not ready).
33-rd-level Masons have been certainly parts of the grip. Still, there is more:
As for evaluating divine intercession, I prefer Pascal's wager:
God is, or God is not. Reason cannot decide between the two alternatives
A Game is being played... where heads or tails will turn up
You must wager; it is not optional
Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing
Wager, then, without hesitation that He is. (...) There is here an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain, a chance of gain against a finite number of chances of loss, and what you stake is finite. And so our proposition is of infinite force when there is the finite to stake in a game where there are equal risks of gain and of loss, and the infinite to gain.
But some cannot believe. They should then 'at least learn your inability to believe...' and 'Endeavor then to convince' themselves.
As for existence of God it certainly doesn't help to have forces intertwined in all our affairs that distort and hide the truths of the supernatural ie creative,good or destructive evil spirits usually paralleled by beautiful or distorted,gross features that both connect to our lives and our dreams or in the astral state travels(and later travels after physical death).
Why they do this is for varying causes but the particularly oppressive ones are the groups usually family generational tied under the impression they're demon worshippers and thus favor hiding and distorting connections of spirituality legit to best virtuous spirits leading to core source of it,Eternal alpha Omega mind ,known as Holy God or Creator for likely good reason..as obviously incomprehensible to us eternity exists as does intelligence as does opposites of vice ,virtue in said creatures seems self evident in history and logic .
So factoring in evidence of spirits outside bodies ie ghosts believed in by most , experienced by many that now show reliable energetic measurable patterns effecting temperature,sound, language spoken, recorded,rf frequency measurements along with magnetic electrical and ability to materialize or impact the physical in short limited manners ie difficult to cross the veil fully long or even short seems..ghost hunters as early as Edison's spirit box has shown to repeatable and thus scientific levels proof of spirits, intending harm or help on earth plane..so it logically follows that life can continue for us after death and that there's a hierarchy of good and bad spirits and that virtues emotional force must have a core source to be real and since we do experience it...there logically is a pro good eternal god...other possibilities to explain all this far far weaker off the bat.. ie tune into core goodness, virtuous where could transcend to eternal.. what do you see? Quite limited possibilities,really only one: An eternal creator creating ,offering free will to choose for him or against so true love not programmed robots can be = only true joy in living goal reached..for some!
Thrust of my argument not attack ie was one who complimented you 2 on being right on majority of issues actually and we 3 largely have had positive discourse on many issues,complimenting the others position or at least nothing full disagreement I can recall isince 2024..only minor sub issue "qualifications"disagreements but again mostly agreed..
Main thrust of my counter position to yours on shape of earth and motions was a 2 part argument largely,citing the 2 in my opinion easiest to comprehend evidences that all is not right with globe theory.
One concerns use of Nikon p900 85 mag or p1000 125 mag camera's showing curvature not what it should be across world..
Lake Michigan beach to beach 65 miles should show over 2500 feet of blockage and only shows 600 to 130 feet or what you'd expect from water moisture or light disturbance effects etc over such a mass if surface was flat.
This experiment has been done by dozens online with 3 of them keeping building at 190 feet above beach in focus whole time..
Other example I used was helicopter hovering doesn't float away at 1000 mph as earth rotation predicts and explanation that atmosphere travels also at 1000 mph is ridiculous cuz no scientific theory is even offered at what elevation 1000 mph suddenly starts or even gradually begins etc and one instantly realizes it's a hoax if truth perception exists in their minds over fantasy favors.
Please address 2 examples therefore with your best scientific based rebuttal or if you offer excuse it's not worthy of your efforts many will know your quest for truth isn't so deep on select issues.
As for minority of comments I made ie spiritual relevance ie tuned out of God's energetic truth in favor of fantasy favors from non truth side of equation = easier to be deceived..that's spirituality 101..if atheistic, or even agnostic and God, heavenly,holy spirit actually exists and opposite demon fed fantasy lures are chosen that atheism aligns with and physilitates..your abilities to see certain truths through those shady glasses will be limited of course..
Most flat earthers cite many examples of why earth is too flat..I prefer to cite just these 2 before proceeding to others as well ,their adequate to show extreme fault in globe earth claims..let's stick with them for awhile shall we!? Only evidences respecting scientific measurements and movements known laws and figures please in your rebuttal addressing specifically lake Michigan and 1000 mph helicopter/no known transition in atmosphere elevation..at least published..why sir..respect the science!
Ps .I'm not a traditional flat Earther as it's model also not quite working everywhere..left with mystery realm caused by deceptions and God choosing not too reveal all seems..never was one to follow any crowd..
I am a little untrusting of any mainstream facts ever since covid so when I came across some FE YouTube debates I was a little intrigued for sure. I find it terrible for the globe earth to have Nasa using fish eye lenses and the lies about space travel (moon landing) and satellite technology, as the main source for their documentation. But then you get some pretty darn strange arrangements from the FE community.
All I know it that it is probably not exactly what we have been told but it's not flat either 🤷 and the size and speed seam a little off or its just crazy coincidence that they are all numbers like 66.6 and a bunch of 3's idk
Don't ban me I'm a recent paid subscriber to your stack ;)
Thank you for your support; it gives me some air to breathe.
The official details MUST contain some facts; otherwise, they wouldn't be credible at all. Just because official news, history, and science are fake, the baby must not be poured out with the bathwater.
The current troll/bot attack used religion for trying to discredit me and divert the reader's attention. I am not banning anyone for disagreeing with me, and the ones I do must repeatedly ASK for it. Otherwise, the Code of Behavior is pretty self-evident; people don't just accept an invitation to a free dinner party and poop on the table. :)
Thank you, as always. What I read between the lines is the ability to manage cognitive abilities - by seeding confusion and to create an ambivalence to the extend, people (some, for sure) will ask: "Is this real?"
Agendas are spinning around the creation of this question, the fomenting of ambiguity - the assault of the perception of "common sense". As a friend of mine and my humble self recently discovered: Sense has become uncommon now. Any attempt to keep it alive, to resuscitate it and to wake it up, must be lauded appropriately. Your part in it is not only noted, but highly appreciated. Keep it coming, precious co-conspirator.
Ah yes, I am triggered when anyone mindlessly utters "Be safe". I despise that phrase as much as I despise the sight of anyone wearing a muzzle. I always inform the person using that awful phase that it is offensive propaganda that should not be used. "Have a nice day!" is a much more pleasant way to end a customer service call.
Agreed,Safe is inherently unobtainable , even for most blessed passing thru transitions of pain and death to other incarnations is a harsh but necessary forging trial..and can pop up quite off ones intended appointment schedule..Be good..is nice.. with virtues of Christ , God..Have a nice day for those not..doesn't work either.
Take care is ok but tad to focused on negative obstacles.
Be well... nice, tad too formal..
Have a good one ok but tad too self indulgent a wish ie pleasure centered..Good day or good day to you is nice but can be dismissive depending on tone of course.
Any others people you like or prefer from above so we can be less awkward and positive greeting wise?- let's fix this thing ! Ha!
I experience it as flat and still. Everyone who has told me its round my whole life have been proven to have lied about almost everything else. Maybe I'm on the fence, maybe I'm not. I dont actually know
Flat and still!?You sir are obviously quite insane but good news is we're sending over our new anti flat earth vaccine for you and your likely insane as well entire family ( it's contagious!)..
Come on,look for the chance it's a humorism or how could I possibly be serious? Or has the world gotten so crazy such is now within range of possible? If so apologies, honestly didn't know iz that bad out there now..Peace and love and truth,virtue quest successes to to all possible here!!!
Ah Greg, you are clearly so enlightened that you figured out the shape of the earth all on your own. You looked at your glass of water on the table in front of you, with zero movement in the water's surface or sat outside on a still day and came to your own conclusion that you were on a ball spinning at 1000mph while flying through a vacuum at 1million mph in 4 different directions. Aren't you just the smartest guy that ever lived. I wonder, do actually have anything remotely interesting to say.
Rob,was I thought obvious sarcastic humour ie I'm a flat earther,hello! But the anti flat earth vaccine is real and their coming! Ha! Kidding again,so much tension on the subject it's like their hiding fallen angel ally's in the stars or something alluded to since ancient time..nahhh! Can't be..hhhmmm?! Greg,your Christian flat earther keeping it witty but serious,never boring hopefully!?
If both parties don't edit or delete their current crude comments, I'll have to do it myself, which I consider rude. If this continues, I'll also have to introduce a one-day ban.
You are right. Still, if both parties don't edit or delete their current crude comments, I'll have to do it myself, which I consider rude. If this continues, I'll also have to introduce a one-day ban.
Hey truthers,notice Ray Horvath and Proton Magic team up a lot on issues and articles..
Both are able to put together very intelligent arguments on a number of subjects,most I agree with ,not all.
However I reject the premise that the majority of intelligent researchers can investigate the hundred plus points indicating flat earth and come away unswayed as the evidence is at the self evident level on many points such as zooming in with a 125 mag.nikon p1000 on a beach 65 miles away as your standing at 15 feet above water level on the other side of lake Michigan and seeing down to approximately a hundred feet above beach level when over 2500 feet is supposed to be curvature blocked..Too back that up many boaters using p1000 have kept focus on a building 200 feet up from beach 65 miles away and traversed all 65 miles with building recorded,in site entire time!
Want to know what globe explanation is for helicopters hovering one spot not floating away at 1000 mph globe predicts? It's that our atmosphere rotates with it,yet no one knows at what approximate height that effect is lossed and 1000 mph suddenly begins! You guys are liars or deceived to the soul ,core,not trying proper to tune into God's truths and ways but that of humanitys enemies of the fallen!
This site is not for "truthers"; it is for those who want to make their own decisions, being fully aware that the full truth is something the human mind cannot conceive.
Oh brotha,Any rational know only God of Alpha Omega always there has full truth..I meant as truther anti deceived or deciver or on max path able to.. truth..purity in anything impossible seems..so I'm good where I stand thanks
Funny that on the one hand, you mock those who fail to read signs .. but having failed yourself to read the obvious signs of a motionless earth?.... Clouds amazingly sit frozen in the sky.. water forms a glass like undisturbed mirror and clings to the earth - a 'spinning ball', (though you can't reproduce that at home), and a helium balloon (and all air) rises but somehow is able to ignore the 'vacuum' of space and remain intact on this spinning ball that is 'racing across the vacuum of space'. I won't even discuss the simple fact that all artillery and airplane trajectory documents take into account a flat motionless surface below.. But, the easy and visible signs are clear - All who ignore them are subject to natural selection...
Are subject to price of not looking earnestly for demonic deception going beyond logic and reason and into hypnotic like state related to their cashing in on fantasys and illusions that serve pleasures and ways outside of God's protections ie consciousness and thought processes can intertwine with the energy's,beings your aligning with..similar to quantum experiment where observation and thought effects particles behavior..ie ghost particle.. leading to conclusion,spiritual players can possess or oppress from micro to macro...another kinda new extension of that is nano tech being so steered outside of man's programming ie Devil's,minions battles go deep,as do angels God most triumphant! Conclusion of this: Your mind and body is a gift with friends and enemies, abuse it too much it will be given to your enemies..incrementally to your love, sellout to delusional pleasures outside virtues (virtues: most valuable of all things he created,not mere info processing abilities).
Does Ray know that Rays post is a relative statement?
Now is Rays time to shine. Can Ray explain the vacuum of space and the Nikon picture arguments? Or will Ray abort? Or ban?
My bet is on Ray to explain.
Ray should be informed that another site has been found that may have some new unknown to Ray information on it. If Ray wants the link, it will be posted.
After all:
''You must always be willing to truly consider evidence that contradicts your beliefs. And admit the possibility that you may be wrong.
Intelligence isn’t knowing everything. It’s the ability to challenge everything that you know.''
Please, notice that much of this post (the Flat Earth/FE part) was a test how far it would attract bots and trolls. You can see that in the comments, which why I am leaving intact for the purpose of your being able to access all the nonsense.
Such tests usually assist with my getting an idea of my current standing. The fact that I am at 60 thousand visitors in the last 30 days again can alone explain the recent bot/troll attacks. I am also happy to report that four readers who sided with the attackers signed off, so my readership totals at 4,767 today.
The current troll/bot attack used religion for trying to discredit me and divert the reader's attention. I am not banning anyone for disagreeing with me, and the ones I do must repeatedly ASK for it with their behavior (I usually warn before banning anyone). Otherwise, the Code of Behavior is pretty self-evident; people don't just accept an invitation to a free dinner party and poop on the table. :)
https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/how-can-you-id-trolls-and-ai
Hi again to Ray.
Since I read Rays how to spot trolls and bots manual, I'm getting better at picking out bots. I think I see a #3 down below.
''I am leaving intact''
Intact? Some posts have been deleted. Ray would never do that. The poster must have done that?
''If you insist on sidetracking the discussion, I will have to ban you.''
Does Ray know if that is considered as coercion?
Sorry, my reply apparently went to the wrong person, but I am only human, making mistakes, so I'll leave it at that with my apologies.
That's ok. I know Ray runs a tight ship. I'd bet that Ray was in the navy at one time.
It's actually not that tight. I just want to protect my readers from nonsense from commenters who are disrespectful, irrelevant, or otherwise disruptive.
This time, I allowed all those in order to show my readers how bots and trolls function.
And no, I've never been in the Navy:
https://jerryglazer.substack.com/p/war-brotherhood-and-a-name-earned/comment/121952805
Oh, yes, I am Ray, and I do that, if the comment disrupts the comment section:
https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/how-can-you-id-trolls-and-ai
In the last month, I have had to do it more than ever before...
If you keep misrepresenting my voice, I'll have to ban you, too...
Brave post Ray! I would like to add that the crucial issue is to focus on the purposes of FE as a counter intel program (COINTELPRO), not to argue about the geometry of the earth. The former enlightens us to manipulation of the masses, and the latter just leads to angry retorts on both sides.
Let me try to summarize the major aims of a program like FE:
1. Resistance to world powers will fight with each other and be divided.
2. As FE seems nutty to the masses, persons who call-out government/world power fakery and plans to manipulate society will be ridiculed by the masses and promote the masses' support of the government. Note that many so-called freedom fighters are also pro FE. This connection is more often than not a way to discredit all persons on the freedom side.
3. FE serves as a distraction to both the resistance and to the masses who may spend too much energy on dealing with it while the world powers push their plans ahead.
2. You must mean James Delingpole Proton! One of the shallowest cover alleged "Truthers" in the Universe. He has a 'discredit by association' for every occasion. It amazes me that so many are carried along by his flippantly upper crust charm. I bet he has his mates Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, David Cameron and Michael Gove in stitches over dinner with tales of gullible goy subscribers.
Hi Proton,
Please explain this statement?
''The first question to those who succumb to obviously-deceptive arguments is,''
''obviously-deceptive arguments''.
What's the name for a statement like that.....again? Predictive, predictable? Something like that? And what does that tell us? One way or the other. Help me out here Proton.
Would you go to court with that statement Proton? Put that before the jury?
''THE EVIDENCE. BEFORE THE COURT IS. INCONTRIVERTABLE THERE'S NO NEED FOR THE JURY TO RETIRE.''
Sorry Max, try to reword your question and give me the situation more concretely.
Confusing. Would you use these ''obviously-deceptive arguments'' to prove that the earth is not flat?
Others have discussed the geometry of the earth in detail, Ray posted 4 links I gave him, you can read those and have any free opinion on them.
I did not write the phrase you quote, ''obviously-deceptive arguments'. My opinion is quite clear in the pinned comment and I really have no more to say on the topic.
Do you agree with this statement?
''You must always be willing to truly consider evidence that contradicts your beliefs. And admit the possibility that you may be wrong.
Intelligence isn’t knowing everything. It’s the ability to challenge everything that you know.''
Ok Max, yes, I gave a like to this comment. I'm in Japan going to sleep now. Lets meet up on another thread some day, somewhere over the rainbow maybe.
As you predicted, the funny comments commenced! :)
Engagement and views supports your posts. The funny comments actually help prove that FE is COINTELPRO and shows this proof to the readers.. Just focus on what COINTELPRO is, never get in a discussion about geometry.
I have no intention to get involved in abortive arguments. :)
Then why would Ray write the article? To pull a Sir Robin?
Ray knows more than you think........ya know?
Why, engaging in abortive arguments would be a good objective? :)
Correction - FE serves to discredit the Scriptures, which are a 100% motionless, flat earth Book.
Does it matter? In this world which is spiraling out of control (metaphorically speaking of the otherwise motionless land), the only safety is in knowing the Man of the Book - Jesus Christ. To discredit the Book, is to discredit the man called 'The Word of God'. A dangerous premise.
This is not a religious site, because religion would open up too many cans of worms, which wouldn't lead anywhere. If you have a factual argument, please use it. Otherwise, ignore what I am saying.
If you search for "religion" as a key word under "Archive" on my main page, you'll see that I am discussing it only from historical and anthropological points of view.
You can say it's not a religious site, but you brought God into it by mocking those of us who believe Him.
Where is my "mocking"? It looks like you are trying to embarrass me. I am usually completely neutral regarding the topic.
God is not religion. You can believe in God / Creation without having a religion..
Indeed. It's about a personal relationship.
If you insist on sidetracking the discussion, I will have to ban you.
Do whatever you feel is necessary. After all censoring discussion is what people do now, isn't it?
So you disagree with keeping it civilized and mutually respectful?
Is keeping is civilized and mutually respectful disagreeable for you?
''Ban you.''?
What? Ray is banning people now?
Yes, please read the guidelines:
https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/how-can-you-id-trolls-and-ai
I made a podcast about the 'Plane Earth' point of view to get people thinking critically. The moon segment has some great points. Anyway, multiple points of view are great to consider. No one has yet provided me with evidence of a ball earth:
https://open.substack.com/pub/soberchristiangentlemanpodcast/p/s1-listener-question-biblical-cosmology?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=31s3eo
Are you saying that the ancient Greeks, Egyptians, and for that matter, Mayas and Azteks, were already conspiring? Their astronomical findings are plentiful, and they collude?
I am saying the people today are lying about the things of yesteryear. The procession of the equinox is more believable with a sky clock scenario, than a mess of sky bodies moving in many directions at once. Lots of interesting riddles.
Lying? Of course. That's how limited hangouts work: they are correct to a certain extent, and their issuers expect their audience to believe the rest...
How about finding a common denominator between what you are saying and traditional astrology? Sorry, I am not a believer in astrology for several reasons, but this might work! :)
I have tried to imagine what a flat earth would have to be on the facts that we know. Bloody strange is all that I can come up with.
I wonder if this comment will come through in the right place considering Mr Proton has banned me.
Sorry to hear that. Strangely, he is applying about the same rules as I, although I am more lenient on commenters picking on specific parties.
You can probably fix this in my comment sections, if you discuss the details with PM.
I can't discuss it with him. He blocks me so I can't comment on any threads below his handle.
In this comment session, I have allowed idiots to comment a lot, but that served the purpose of showing some trolls/bots/idiots. I'm sure you are not one of them. :)
If you care, I can relay a message to PM.
It's fine. I was skeptical on his JFK theories (which are that JFK was theatre from the early 70s) and if he can't handle that then he's got no real right to critique flat earth.
I'm not flat earth btw but reserve the right to change my mind.
You are highly intelligent, and it would have surprised me, if you were for FE.
As I describe the FE theory in the article, I am not buying it, either, but don't expect anyone to agree with me. Personally, I believe that after the official narrative has been lying about everything for over 100 years, FE is using the impetus to convince people. However, nobody will become a better person in either way, and living a valuable life is what matters...
PM doesn't ban anyone for politely disagreeing with him, but if you give me the link to the banning session, I can check it out.
I copied the above link from Safari (where I am not logged into Substack) and then posted it on Firefox (where I am logged in) to see where the post ended up. Seems to have ended up nowhere in particular.
What link and which post?
I can't remember now. Maybe this one;
https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/the-tiny-realm-of-feeling-secure/comments#comment-121751448
It is not. Max and Victoria were trolling. Had to ban Victoria, and Max asked for it again in a comment section later, but heeded the warning, and I didn't ban him.
It's difficult to face much of our allegiance has been paid to an extreme cult/occult group (masons, we were told we're merely harmless men's social club) who train their member since 1776 and prior to deceive for power politics and wealth and worse (among other dark arts, practices) and have led our country into many deadly wars and dishonourable situations or non moon landing 69, distorting said creation ie shape of earth,function,purpose of heavenly bodies(stars,etc) in relation to us for occultic in knowledge,power advantages of the elite and minions over us for what they perceive as spiritual mainly gain ,not primarily scientific as they truly are dedicated to Babylonian occultic arts labeled in Bible and by many cultures effected by them in history as more destructive then otherwise to non member community's regardless of their religion or none and yes ,this reflected in their numerology famously ie 333 666 especially but several other power numbers are used,as are items like power energetic obelisks,secret languages and hand signs and oaths to the death over even their familys and country moral, legal obligations ie a illegal by it's nature to our constitution and national,state laws ( some outlawing specifically such oaths ignored as their so infiltrated..)
It is this group(& minions and fooled compartmentalized workers) that have control of the technology that reveals the shape of our earth largely and transition areas of our upper atmosphere and non falsified proximity of 7 planets and stars,sun and moon and what those actually are held hostage by them in fiction for purposes that include hiding knowledge from us of who and what we truly are going way back to our beginnings ,a theft of orientation that robs us of an incredible amount of our sense of purpose,etc, including potentially obviously,but I believe certainly who and what are creator is in relation to his creation and those who favor him or are against him and why and how this relates to good and evil and those who deceive and destroy largely vs those who seek to align themselves with the goodness of creation, relevant much today as we're so on verge of massive destructions,some already occurring quite hard to face.
Thank you, Greg, for the exhaustive (and exhausting :) ) comment!
Please, restrict your comments to one or two problems at a time; I am already flooded and still have to work to make money, so if you want me to respond, just cut it short.
In this comment section, I am more flexible than usual, so you and I might be able to have a discussion, but we must abide by the Rules of Engagement, both in trolling and in achieving results between two cooperating parties:
https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/steve-kirsch-is-challenging-again
Either way, here is my current (limited) reply:
I am no good at numerology, and still need to be convinced about it. The same applies to astrology (I've been planning a post about it forever, but its' not ready).
33-rd-level Masons have been certainly parts of the grip. Still, there is more:
https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/finalizing-who-is-responsible
As for evaluating divine intercession, I prefer Pascal's wager:
God is, or God is not. Reason cannot decide between the two alternatives
A Game is being played... where heads or tails will turn up
You must wager; it is not optional
Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing
Wager, then, without hesitation that He is. (...) There is here an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain, a chance of gain against a finite number of chances of loss, and what you stake is finite. And so our proposition is of infinite force when there is the finite to stake in a game where there are equal risks of gain and of loss, and the infinite to gain.
But some cannot believe. They should then 'at least learn your inability to believe...' and 'Endeavor then to convince' themselves.
As for existence of God it certainly doesn't help to have forces intertwined in all our affairs that distort and hide the truths of the supernatural ie creative,good or destructive evil spirits usually paralleled by beautiful or distorted,gross features that both connect to our lives and our dreams or in the astral state travels(and later travels after physical death).
Why they do this is for varying causes but the particularly oppressive ones are the groups usually family generational tied under the impression they're demon worshippers and thus favor hiding and distorting connections of spirituality legit to best virtuous spirits leading to core source of it,Eternal alpha Omega mind ,known as Holy God or Creator for likely good reason..as obviously incomprehensible to us eternity exists as does intelligence as does opposites of vice ,virtue in said creatures seems self evident in history and logic .
So factoring in evidence of spirits outside bodies ie ghosts believed in by most , experienced by many that now show reliable energetic measurable patterns effecting temperature,sound, language spoken, recorded,rf frequency measurements along with magnetic electrical and ability to materialize or impact the physical in short limited manners ie difficult to cross the veil fully long or even short seems..ghost hunters as early as Edison's spirit box has shown to repeatable and thus scientific levels proof of spirits, intending harm or help on earth plane..so it logically follows that life can continue for us after death and that there's a hierarchy of good and bad spirits and that virtues emotional force must have a core source to be real and since we do experience it...there logically is a pro good eternal god...other possibilities to explain all this far far weaker off the bat.. ie tune into core goodness, virtuous where could transcend to eternal.. what do you see? Quite limited possibilities,really only one: An eternal creator creating ,offering free will to choose for him or against so true love not programmed robots can be = only true joy in living goal reached..for some!
Again, your comment is too long. Why don't you start your own stack and just give me a link to your article that addresses the problem in question?
Ok,fair enough request..I'll give your section bit of vacation too make up.. and try closer to avg length..thanks for tolerances anyways..peace!
Thank you kindly. You do look like someone who is well-meaning and I am more than willing to help you with setting up your stack!
Thrust of my argument not attack ie was one who complimented you 2 on being right on majority of issues actually and we 3 largely have had positive discourse on many issues,complimenting the others position or at least nothing full disagreement I can recall isince 2024..only minor sub issue "qualifications"disagreements but again mostly agreed..
Main thrust of my counter position to yours on shape of earth and motions was a 2 part argument largely,citing the 2 in my opinion easiest to comprehend evidences that all is not right with globe theory.
One concerns use of Nikon p900 85 mag or p1000 125 mag camera's showing curvature not what it should be across world..
Lake Michigan beach to beach 65 miles should show over 2500 feet of blockage and only shows 600 to 130 feet or what you'd expect from water moisture or light disturbance effects etc over such a mass if surface was flat.
This experiment has been done by dozens online with 3 of them keeping building at 190 feet above beach in focus whole time..
Other example I used was helicopter hovering doesn't float away at 1000 mph as earth rotation predicts and explanation that atmosphere travels also at 1000 mph is ridiculous cuz no scientific theory is even offered at what elevation 1000 mph suddenly starts or even gradually begins etc and one instantly realizes it's a hoax if truth perception exists in their minds over fantasy favors.
Please address 2 examples therefore with your best scientific based rebuttal or if you offer excuse it's not worthy of your efforts many will know your quest for truth isn't so deep on select issues.
As for minority of comments I made ie spiritual relevance ie tuned out of God's energetic truth in favor of fantasy favors from non truth side of equation = easier to be deceived..that's spirituality 101..if atheistic, or even agnostic and God, heavenly,holy spirit actually exists and opposite demon fed fantasy lures are chosen that atheism aligns with and physilitates..your abilities to see certain truths through those shady glasses will be limited of course..
Most flat earthers cite many examples of why earth is too flat..I prefer to cite just these 2 before proceeding to others as well ,their adequate to show extreme fault in globe earth claims..let's stick with them for awhile shall we!? Only evidences respecting scientific measurements and movements known laws and figures please in your rebuttal addressing specifically lake Michigan and 1000 mph helicopter/no known transition in atmosphere elevation..at least published..why sir..respect the science!
Ps .I'm not a traditional flat Earther as it's model also not quite working everywhere..left with mystery realm caused by deceptions and God choosing not too reveal all seems..never was one to follow any crowd..
..
Oops typo: 60 to 130 feet..not 600..
I am a little untrusting of any mainstream facts ever since covid so when I came across some FE YouTube debates I was a little intrigued for sure. I find it terrible for the globe earth to have Nasa using fish eye lenses and the lies about space travel (moon landing) and satellite technology, as the main source for their documentation. But then you get some pretty darn strange arrangements from the FE community.
All I know it that it is probably not exactly what we have been told but it's not flat either 🤷 and the size and speed seam a little off or its just crazy coincidence that they are all numbers like 66.6 and a bunch of 3's idk
Don't ban me I'm a recent paid subscriber to your stack ;)
Thank you for your support; it gives me some air to breathe.
The official details MUST contain some facts; otherwise, they wouldn't be credible at all. Just because official news, history, and science are fake, the baby must not be poured out with the bathwater.
The current troll/bot attack used religion for trying to discredit me and divert the reader's attention. I am not banning anyone for disagreeing with me, and the ones I do must repeatedly ASK for it. Otherwise, the Code of Behavior is pretty self-evident; people don't just accept an invitation to a free dinner party and poop on the table. :)
https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/how-can-you-id-trolls-and-ai
And you are banned for violating the user agreement on my stack:
https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/how-can-you-id-trolls-and-ai
You might want to put your Rules of Commentary Engagement in your About page
I also added the link to the About page.
Thank you for the recommendation; just added the link to the troll/AI post.
Thank you, as always. What I read between the lines is the ability to manage cognitive abilities - by seeding confusion and to create an ambivalence to the extend, people (some, for sure) will ask: "Is this real?"
Agendas are spinning around the creation of this question, the fomenting of ambiguity - the assault of the perception of "common sense". As a friend of mine and my humble self recently discovered: Sense has become uncommon now. Any attempt to keep it alive, to resuscitate it and to wake it up, must be lauded appropriately. Your part in it is not only noted, but highly appreciated. Keep it coming, precious co-conspirator.
Sorry, my post was about filtering out agents and bots... The comment section exemplifies the lot, and I have nothing to add...
Ah yes, I am triggered when anyone mindlessly utters "Be safe". I despise that phrase as much as I despise the sight of anyone wearing a muzzle. I always inform the person using that awful phase that it is offensive propaganda that should not be used. "Have a nice day!" is a much more pleasant way to end a customer service call.
My wife usually says, "Take care!" and I tease the beast by saying, "God Bless!" :)
Agreed,Safe is inherently unobtainable , even for most blessed passing thru transitions of pain and death to other incarnations is a harsh but necessary forging trial..and can pop up quite off ones intended appointment schedule..Be good..is nice.. with virtues of Christ , God..Have a nice day for those not..doesn't work either.
Take care is ok but tad to focused on negative obstacles.
Be well... nice, tad too formal..
Have a good one ok but tad too self indulgent a wish ie pleasure centered..Good day or good day to you is nice but can be dismissive depending on tone of course.
Any others people you like or prefer from above so we can be less awkward and positive greeting wise?- let's fix this thing ! Ha!
All I can remember about flat is men's flat tops back in the day. And women used to have flat stomachs. Yea, the good old days. LOL
I experience it as flat and still. Everyone who has told me its round my whole life have been proven to have lied about almost everything else. Maybe I'm on the fence, maybe I'm not. I dont actually know
Thank you for respecting your fellow readers and removing the irrelevany/crude parts! Waiting for Greg to do the same!
Flat and still!?You sir are obviously quite insane but good news is we're sending over our new anti flat earth vaccine for you and your likely insane as well entire family ( it's contagious!)..
Come on,look for the chance it's a humorism or how could I possibly be serious? Or has the world gotten so crazy such is now within range of possible? If so apologies, honestly didn't know iz that bad out there now..Peace and love and truth,virtue quest successes to to all possible here!!!
Ah Greg, you are clearly so enlightened that you figured out the shape of the earth all on your own. You looked at your glass of water on the table in front of you, with zero movement in the water's surface or sat outside on a still day and came to your own conclusion that you were on a ball spinning at 1000mph while flying through a vacuum at 1million mph in 4 different directions. Aren't you just the smartest guy that ever lived. I wonder, do actually have anything remotely interesting to say.
Rob,was I thought obvious sarcastic humour ie I'm a flat earther,hello! But the anti flat earth vaccine is real and their coming! Ha! Kidding again,so much tension on the subject it's like their hiding fallen angel ally's in the stars or something alluded to since ancient time..nahhh! Can't be..hhhmmm?! Greg,your Christian flat earther keeping it witty but serious,never boring hopefully!?
Greg, please accept my apologies. That was a great impression of the typical asshole that tends to respond with a closed mind. Cheers 🍻
Please, remain more civilized than "civilized" people usually are! :)
Was a sarcastic joke or I'm a flat earther for real..good news: No anti flat earth vaccine team on the way, phew!
Now I've re read it, I can clearly see the sarcasm. It was good though 🤣
I have removed both of my comments Ray, out of respect, I apologise for my childish behaviour.
If both parties don't edit or delete their current crude comments, I'll have to do it myself, which I consider rude. If this continues, I'll also have to introduce a one-day ban.
Please, use civilized language... I mean, MORE civilized! :)
Sorry Ray, but he did start it 😁
You are right. Still, if both parties don't edit or delete their current crude comments, I'll have to do it myself, which I consider rude. If this continues, I'll also have to introduce a one-day ban.
Hey truthers,notice Ray Horvath and Proton Magic team up a lot on issues and articles..
Both are able to put together very intelligent arguments on a number of subjects,most I agree with ,not all.
However I reject the premise that the majority of intelligent researchers can investigate the hundred plus points indicating flat earth and come away unswayed as the evidence is at the self evident level on many points such as zooming in with a 125 mag.nikon p1000 on a beach 65 miles away as your standing at 15 feet above water level on the other side of lake Michigan and seeing down to approximately a hundred feet above beach level when over 2500 feet is supposed to be curvature blocked..Too back that up many boaters using p1000 have kept focus on a building 200 feet up from beach 65 miles away and traversed all 65 miles with building recorded,in site entire time!
Want to know what globe explanation is for helicopters hovering one spot not floating away at 1000 mph globe predicts? It's that our atmosphere rotates with it,yet no one knows at what approximate height that effect is lossed and 1000 mph suddenly begins! You guys are liars or deceived to the soul ,core,not trying proper to tune into God's truths and ways but that of humanitys enemies of the fallen!
This site is not for "truthers"; it is for those who want to make their own decisions, being fully aware that the full truth is something the human mind cannot conceive.
Oh brotha,Any rational know only God of Alpha Omega always there has full truth..I meant as truther anti deceived or deciver or on max path able to.. truth..purity in anything impossible seems..so I'm good where I stand thanks
https://youtu.be/F6eucLDeDyc
Funny that on the one hand, you mock those who fail to read signs .. but having failed yourself to read the obvious signs of a motionless earth?.... Clouds amazingly sit frozen in the sky.. water forms a glass like undisturbed mirror and clings to the earth - a 'spinning ball', (though you can't reproduce that at home), and a helium balloon (and all air) rises but somehow is able to ignore the 'vacuum' of space and remain intact on this spinning ball that is 'racing across the vacuum of space'. I won't even discuss the simple fact that all artillery and airplane trajectory documents take into account a flat motionless surface below.. But, the easy and visible signs are clear - All who ignore them are subject to natural selection...
Are subject to price of not looking earnestly for demonic deception going beyond logic and reason and into hypnotic like state related to their cashing in on fantasys and illusions that serve pleasures and ways outside of God's protections ie consciousness and thought processes can intertwine with the energy's,beings your aligning with..similar to quantum experiment where observation and thought effects particles behavior..ie ghost particle.. leading to conclusion,spiritual players can possess or oppress from micro to macro...another kinda new extension of that is nano tech being so steered outside of man's programming ie Devil's,minions battles go deep,as do angels God most triumphant! Conclusion of this: Your mind and body is a gift with friends and enemies, abuse it too much it will be given to your enemies..incrementally to your love, sellout to delusional pleasures outside virtues (virtues: most valuable of all things he created,not mere info processing abilities).
It looks like PM was correct in the comment on top.
Does Ray know that Rays post is a relative statement?
Now is Rays time to shine. Can Ray explain the vacuum of space and the Nikon picture arguments? Or will Ray abort? Or ban?
My bet is on Ray to explain.
Ray should be informed that another site has been found that may have some new unknown to Ray information on it. If Ray wants the link, it will be posted.
After all:
''You must always be willing to truly consider evidence that contradicts your beliefs. And admit the possibility that you may be wrong.
Intelligence isn’t knowing everything. It’s the ability to challenge everything that you know.''
Therefore, I await the explanation.
I thank Ray.
Look, everything I have to say is in the article.